phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
1:58 PM
If
you take strong bands and choke them tight enough to where they give a
lot of resistance at the bottom, it is very hard to get the bar moving
with any kind of weight on the bar. Taking that into account, would it
make any sense to choke some lighter bands really tight to give
resistance at the initial pull, while also using some stronger bands to
give additional resistance later in the pull? Just to make sure I am
making sense, I would be using a total of four bands....
Thank you
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
3:44 PM
You
have to look at the total amount of accomidation. The total
accomidation is the difference between the weight at the top and the
weight at the bottom.
I get a 70 pound window of accomidation with
green, 110 with blue and 210 with black. This is the window of change
that the band applies to the bar not the band tension.
You have to make waves of accomidation from alot
to a little. The bar weight is going to increase during the wave with
bands from the bottom and decrease with bands from the top.
I may have gotten off topic. If so, let me know.
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
3:48 PM
To summarize, you are saying that it is not a good idea?
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
4:39 PM
Phil,
are you using a jumpstretch platform? I think it is the nature of bands
(no matter how they are rigged) to help persons with DL sticking points
higher up. I always stick low so they have not really helped me. Also
with that set up you would really be pushing the super choked bands to
the limit, but it sounds really cool to have two levels of tension
kicking in...you would really have to explode and keep pulling hard
hard hard to the final lockout....locking out straight weight after
doing these would seem like an easy task if you could get the bar
moving good off the floor....
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
4:45 PM
No,
I would not use a second different set of bands because it may mess up
the resistence curve of the bands you are seeking on the deadlift. It
would be difficult to get them just right. You do not want a lag in
tension and then a second set of bands comming on an inch or two later.
The tension from the band is not linear. The tension has it's best
effects because the curve on bands is exponential (continually
increasing), not at the same rate but at an increasing rate.
I guess it depends where you want the tension;
some tension off the floor and gradually comming on, or no tension at
the floor and comming on in a short period of time at the top. A good
rule of thumb is the 2/3 rule. Bands should be giving tension to the
movement for at least 2/3 of the range of motion.
Think about that. If you can not handle the band
tension for at least 2/3 of the motion then you need less bands or a
different setup.
For instance, if your deadlift is 30 inches of movement, then you need to fight band tension for 20 inches or more.
Hope this helps!
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
4:49 PM
Which is what is so great about the jumpstretch platform, you can just keep adding minibands
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
4:52 PM
Yes add minis but do not add minis on top of some other band such as a green or blue. The resistance curves are too different!
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
5:21 PM
I
got you. I am basically improvising the setup. I feed them under the
deadlift "platform" at a commercial gym. I have them pretty tight and I
am lifting off the top of my feet. (literally). I can lockout a lot
more than I can take off the floor so I want tension lower. I am just
trying to dl from as many different angles as possible, with different
weight/tension/speed as posssible. I am feeling much more powerful and
I can actually tell my legs are bigger. (Not that I really wanted
that). A lot of my dl problems are technique related and at the rate I
am going, I should reach and exceed my goal of 600 in 6 six months.
(Barring catastophic injury:)
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
5:54 PM
That is great phil, so so far no damage from dropping the squats? I am down to front squats and overhead lunges
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
6:03 PM
No,
actually my legs are growing. Maybe they were just used to the squats.
I do have a minor ab. pull. I am watching it so it doesn't progress any
further. I just started training with the bands and they seem to make
me very tired. I don't know if that is in my head though.
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
8:39 PM
It
is not your head; bands are very taxing on the uervous system and the
muscular tissues. I cycle them 2-3 weeks on and the next 2-3 week cycle
does not include bands. I go to a box or chain work.
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
10:03 PM
That was my plan, to use them for about 3-4 weeks. (Depending on how I feel).
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Wednesday,
July 20, 2005
10:20 PM
After that go in a rack or under beam and do reverse bands, better known as the lightened method.
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
7:30 AM
Thanks. I woke up this morning and I feel like I have been hit by a truck.....
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
8:43 AM
I
have never been able to pull bands from the floor more than 2 weeks
straight. I would do speed work or no deadlifts and got back to them on
week three. If you feel like the deadlift is a burden and you do not
"want" to pull, then you may be overtraining the exercise. I do them
just often enough that when it is deadlift day; I would rather be doing
nothing else. That is the way to do it because it is such a mental
exercise.
Good luck!
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
8:56 AM
I am still really looking forward to pulling twice a week. I am tired but I still feel good.
I think I have a pretty good understanding of
the reverse band pull...I just hang the bands to where the last several
inches is without any band tension?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
Cory Ackerman
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
10:22 AM
### I should reach and exceed my goal of 600 in six months. (Barring catastrophic injury:)
Hey Phil, I am going for 600 in about that time
frame, originally going for six months, but shooting for four now. My
goal in four months is to increase my raw lifts to SQ 550, BP 365, DL
600. I was hoping to find someone here DLing that around the same time
so we can have a race to 700. In the meantime, do you wanna have a race
to 600? I would push a little harder knowing I was racing you:)
|
|
|
|
tcu lifter
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
12:51 PM
Cory-
We're on to 700 if you want. I have a pl competition next week and God
willing, I plan to pull around 600. Let me know if you're game. I have
no training partners, so I think it'd be fun to track progress via the
board...
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
1:00 PM
Phil,
are you doing any snatch grip deads off the platform? I figued those
could sub for front squats and might help the DL more.
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
1:02 PM
Oh
and by the way, if you really want to kick the crap out of the legs do
those with a green band through your belt....put the end loops of the
band under your heels...OUCH
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
1:04 PM
They are a staple, I have been pulling with the bar touching the tops of my feet. Good idea about the belt.
|
|
|
|
Cory Ackerman
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
1:21 PM
Awesome!
There are a couple of really strong guys in my gym, but only one truly
serious PLer. I got to work out with him once, but normally I'm at work
when he lifts. He's out of my league right now anyway, squatting in the
800's and in the upper 500's on his bench @218.
If you're thinking you'll do 600 next week
you're ahead of me so I'll have to work harder to catch up. I'm doing
heavy singles on Oct. 3rd and Nov. 7th and was hoping for 600 on Nov.
7th, but if we're racing to 700 I better push/pull (pun intended) for
Oct. 3rd. Email me and let me know how you do at the meet! Good luck!!!
|
|
|
|
Shawn Michael
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
1:56 PM
Phil,
when I do the snatch grips, (I pull them standing on a 4.5inch platform
for full ROM) I ususally hold out by the collars and it kills my
hands...I have been using straps....do you have any grip problems with
these?
Band through the belt, let my know what you think
|
|
|
|
tcu lifter
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
2:43 PM
Sounds
good... Just wondering- what type of trainin routine do you use? I'm
kind of here, there, and everywhere. As I'm getting stronger some stuff
stops working and other stuff keeps working. I feel like I'm constantly
weeding out the garden. My deadlift is really the only lift that I can
depend on. My squat and benchpress are really finicky.
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
3:16 PM
Don't
hang with something long enough to allow it to stop working. The
maximum benefit from a given variation of an exerciese is maximized at
week 2 and you can still have good return on week 3. The return drops
off fast at week 4 and week 5 is close to a waste of time. I will try
to find the return curve and post it for you. If you follow this then
you will get maximum return from every workout. I never made gains that
I was satisfied with until I allied this to my routine and utilized
mini cycles.
I have two guys I train with; both of which are
very strong. One does 2 week mini cycles and the other changes every
week. He is a 1050 squatter and never does the same workout 2 times in
a row.
We all work off the same patterns but one is a 1
week pattern, the other is a 2 week pattern and I prefer the 3 week
pattern with no work on week 4.
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
tcu lifter
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
5:04 PM
Jeff-
I can train my dead 2 ways in particular. The first is using the Ed
Coan dead routine. Its a linear 10 week program that I have used 2
times and gotten gains both times. The other way is using a strict
volumizing routine like smolov. I know you have a bigger dead than me,
but why change something if it is helping you solidly? I'm anxious to
apply your ideas to my squat and bench though. Can we explore these
areas further??? Any luck with Facebook?
|
|
|
|
tcu lifter
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
5:10 PM
ps ---- Sorry to Phil! I'm not trying to jack your thread.
|
|
|
|
phil elliott
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
6:24 PM
No problem at all..TCU. It is all about deadlifting.
When I snatch grip, it is off a platform that
most people would do stiff-leg dls from, or even curls. I put my feet
together, and put my hands out all the way. I am not using straps but
grip is a problem. It is usually a function of reps. If I do heavy
singles, it is painful, but I can usually stand it.
|
|
|
|
Jeffrey Vaughn
Guest
|
Band training ideas (deadlift)
Thursday,
July 21, 2005
9:44 PM
If
it works don't change it...I came up with all my ideas after the linear
routines I found on the internet stopped working for me.
Jeffrey Vaughn
|
|
|
|
